rapturerebornmmorpgfandomcom-20200216-history
Part 84
Sitemap '--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - ' More interesting items/ideas for a Bioshock Rapture MMORPG '--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- -' 'Part 84' --- --- --- --- --- The Big Ripoff : Unique Roller Coaster for the Rapture Carnival - called "The SkyLine Straphanger" with rediculous sharp curves and steep dips and simulated falls and limb jerking captures... A whole maze of paths so you don't know which way you will go, or what you will get next. Sound effects includes those of limbs being torn out of their sockets and 'misses' and the screams of those plummeting to their deaths far below. Various rediculous deranged Parasite Statists enemies fire at you as you pass by (all being very poor shots). At the end, you jump off and try to hit one of several targets to try to win a prize. --- --- --- You Don't Even Have To Buy These Games Any More : You just watch someone else play it on YouTube (or other), knowing that because they are so bad these days that you wouldn't get anything much different if you had played (and paid) yourself. Its actually more amusing getting the feedback/commentary of some of these players about the terrible predictable gameplay and feeble game mechanics. You can get that added interest from hearing their point of view and funny snide comments. ALL FREE. As this happens more and more with these games produced by a Game Industry stuck in its 'More of the Same' rut, and unwilling to take risks, these lame companies will be selling so few copies that they will go out of business ("Sell a Better Product" - Ive told them for years...), and the Truth is they will deserve it. --- --- Maniac Rampages Through New Rapture - News at 11 : MMORPG Players get to see what it feels like to have a dual Weapon/Plasmid wielding ADAM-soaked monster chasing after them (acting like Jack/Delta/Sigma did). Roleplaying being a typical shooting-gallery-fodder Splicer in those historic events OR as a normal ex-Splicer Players (who don't have Plasmids) putting them in the place of all those Rapturians they terrorized at one time as the monster in those other games. The only serious question will be : Can the Players run away fast enough ? Conversely, the Players could revisit corrected versions of those past adventures, this time with fewer manipulated/contrived/illogical plot distortions/inconsistencies. You get to see what Atlas and his thugs actually did to Rapture - made obvious to you from the start, so that YOU might have a chance to fight against your WYK conditioning or Eleanor's siren call. You would see many Splicer inhabitants fleeing from your destructive path, and others trying to defend their homes from 'the monster'. Ryan rallying his people against the anarchists and murderous rebels, and now you. Sofia Lamb's "killing fields" will stand obvious, making plain what poison her philosophy really was. --- --- --- Mechanical Thingees (Ideas from Reality) : http://507movements.com/index01.html Lots of ideas from this website for various mechanisms/machines for Players to create. Ditto for the fabrication/built-it puzzles (many can be 2D and still be interesting, while the 3D can be far into challenging). --- --- --- More Consumer Rewards Program(s) : In the competitive consumer environment of Rapture and the mindset of its citizens, what better way to motivate but through contest competition with proper salesmanship ??? It is possible in New Rapture for 'test' or experimental devices and such to be made available to the inhabitants (often for free use) to be evaluated under real conditions to help make improvements possible. Following the use, a product evaluation form would be filled out (and usually the item returned) and a payment of some kind received. Testers would start with simpler items, and after showing their competence, progress further (next iteration of that item or another similar item). This could make a whole plethora of unusual items available to Players who otherwise wouldn't get their hands on such things, and some rather strange and unexpected results when using them. As in the real world a useful thing can have great risks as well as making possible great deeds. Seeing some NPC testing an item have a rather unfortunate result can be used for various 'rescue' scenarios. As per logic and reason, Sinclair's Testing Program had a goal of final testing for Combat Plasmids and new Weapons Ryan needed to fight Atlas's murderous minions. Sinclair would NOT have been equipping the other side -- a situation only there to justify the MP PvP sidegame (though they COULD have made a cooperative multiplayer game instead -- maybe). Quite illogical because Sinclair was one of the people Atlas/Fontaine wanted dead. (***Good Idea*** --- for the MMORPG to have a cooperative campaign game set in that situation!!!). --- --- --- Should have a page for this vvv BaS Scenes You Didn't (but wanted to) See : Elizabeth cranks up 'the heat' instantly to full ("broil") and you hear the flames roar and Sally shriek. And then you hear Booker making a comment about thinking he's smelling roast pork. Unfortunately, Sally while suffering searing pain went down the wrong vent tube path and is pressed up against one of the locked 'grills' on the Vents, and becomes a smoking charred corpse. One wonders why such intense heat would be needed in a heating system that is supposed to blow only hot air and even then only of a moderate amount. (Even moderate heat in those Vents (nice hot metal and blasts of sweltering air) would be most uncomfortable. This begs the question of how they were ever used by Little Sisters and still remain operational ? Answer : They were actually the systems 'return' vents - not heater or air blower vents). --- --- --- Columbia Is Held-up In The Air By Ghosts !!! : This can be the only explanation. It cannot be anything technical. Quantum Pinning (what they appear to think they are using) is the property of blocks (not particles) of superconductors to 'float' when suspended within (relative to) a VERY powerful magnetic field of very specific shape, mounted on the ground. This is NOT in evidence in the game. Columbia is supposed to move and the huge/powerful ground magnetic field generator would have to more with it ON THE GROUND. Also a magnetic field of the size and strength required would apply great force to anything normally magnetized within/near that field. Rosalind didn't like the term 'Levitation', but that is exactly what has to happen with no supporting mechanism on the ground. There also is no particle "fixed in space", or that 'fixed' particle would shoot off at thousands of miles an hour as the planet/sun/galaxy motions all rotate and move relative in the universal reference frame. These particles have to hold themselves at an altitude above the earth - YET also have to be able to slide sideways as the city moves (AND do this in concert with each other). Next how would you affix these 'particles' to solid stuctural components so they can hold up the rest of the physical matter that makes up the floating city ? Particles are teeny-tiny and have little surface area to fasten anything that would transmit the gravity forces of the weight of the City. No known materials even today have such compressive or tensile strengths - unless these particles are well-distributed and VERY VERY numerous - almost countless numbers of them everywhere throughout the City. Somesuch machinery outside of the 'Particles' is required. Electro-magnetic Beam devices to hold onto them? Assuming they are now somehow magnetic, and some way created to not pull every other metal object to them... Even in our day of supermagnets and efficient electrics, we would have much of the city having to be huge magnet mechanisms to suspend the weight by these 'particles'. And the OTHER half of the city would have to be the engines to generate the energy/power needed to run those magnets (and who knows where all the fuel needed to run the engines comes from - and Please don't go saying all that power comes from the Quantum Bullshit too). Consider what happens if only a bit of that power (or any part of the system actually) FAILS (HINT- plummeting city blocks, Screaming Columbians soon to be turned into splattered hamburger, after they fall and crash into the ground). So is this some Anti-gravity substance with many-many particles imbedded everywhere, using normal friction to enmesh them into the building materials ?? Are all these particles wired-up still to make this "Lutece Field" effect work ??? Or have they somehow been 'transformed' and imbued with this strange levitational ability, required to continuously support all that weight being applied to them ?? ((Are you starting to get the idea of how star-treky/star-warsy this stuff has to be to work and with Fink/Luteces basically technological cavemen ???)) Is a significant portion of Columbia made of this "Upsy-daisyum" (of Rocky and Bullwinkle fame), and the rest (brick walls, stone/wood buildings, dirt, streets) hanging or stacked (and BALANCED) using various support structures (girders, tension-rods and guywires)? Is it now Self-balancing too ?? (OR does when half the population of Columbia run over to stone somebody at 'The Fair', the City tilts over like a WW2 destroyer doing a full rudder turn at 35 knots ???) Imagine what happens when the Vox starts sabatoging the 'floaty' mechanisms (which have to be everywhere)... Intelligently Self-balancing and altitude/force maintaining, self powering, (and we haven't even got started about how the thing gets moved...) - Ghosts - Yeah thats the Ticket!!! So Infinite:BS is ALL Physical Law breaking ??? .... HEY thats Metaphysical shit there !!!. GHOSTS and SPIRITS !!! THATS how you 'just do stuff' without any real reason/logic/'normal' way to explain it. We saw that Spooky/dark Cabaret concept art (certain people have attempted to declared 'concept' stuff as 'Canon' as to plot explanations...), which looked like a vampire hangout -- and we do have the manifestation of Lady Comstock laying in her native earth in that tomb don't we ?? SO doesn't that mean that Rosalind Lutece is a Witch who summons and controls Demons and Spirits?? And then, it could be likely that Comstock, on finally learning this (being that odd sort of pseudo-christian) had Fink BURN her and her Warlock brother in her own hellspawned contraption ?? (but cover it up so as not to appear as being 'duped' into this whole thing). SO, are the Saturnine symbols in Rapture related to this Witchcraft at all ?? (as it is 'Prime' - because ole Ken said so...) Songbird is just a Golem ... well that explains it. AND They even have some magic potion called "POSSESSION" in the game. All we really needed to see was Elizabeth spitting out tons of green vomit and have her head spin around, and it all would have been so much simpler. People 'Remembering that they were Dead' in an alternate dimension .... yeah right... much better for it to be 'hauntings' and such. - !!! STOP BELITTLING THE DETAIL YOU HATER!!! Then (you writers) don't bring up real Science and claim it as the reason for something it cannot be. Just say its Ganja Forces or somesuch, and it just works 'cuz', like they usually do in Fantasy. Then you can get on with your illogical/bizarre plot without distractions. Come to think of it, the religion crap and pseudo history garbage was just as fallacious. Three Strikes and YOURRRRR OUT!!! --- --- --- Lackeys for U : Ive seen MMORPG games where in the 'old days' one had to go to a mailbox to pickup ones in-game Mail *or* to the 'Bank' to access inventory stored there, etc...). Then to be more 'convenient' they started allowing Players to access their mail (and sometimes their bank) from anywhere on the map. Unlimited loot 'Bags of Holding' even (in later games if you 'paid' $$$ ...) For this Bioshock MMORPG, which is going for some realism, you would have a Lackey/'Team' NPC henchman sit in your Residence (when you get one), and be set with instructions to handle various types of Mail - some having to do with a Players business operations, or organizing supplies ordered and such. So while you are out adventuring, the routine stuff still gets done. No doubt there would be your 'desk' where important messages are piled and a bulletin board where new notices get posted for you. There ARE some instantaneous communications in the tech genre (some convenient phones and possibly a radio link as options) through which the Player can be notified . The Pneumo does work within City Limits when something urgently needs to be forwarded to the Player (instead of waiting to return to base or have a lackey deliver whatever it is). Some Player convenience can be accommodated, designed with a sufficiently simple interface and option selections to make it easy to use. Scripted AI to handle such things would be 'plugins' (and improved/expanded by the MMORPGs Player Creators). --- --- --- Little Sister Possession (BS2 Player uses Little-Sister-Vision ™ in Outer Persephone) : Is it a delusion, or is there a more technical (less magic-like) explanation possible/plausible ? Even if Delta didn't really do what he thinks he sees (running around in the ex-insane asylum in Outer Persephone as a Little Sister), Eleanor supposedly still had to 'use them as her hands' to do some of the things to repair/modify the Vita Chamber to fix Delta, etc... Perhaps Delta is really seeing what is in a TV screen inside his suit, seeing a projection from a Little Sister with a visual sensor and radio link, and a not-quite asleep Eleanor is actually guiding the LS to get the suit parts, etc.. Or its an implant - Big Daddies may have had a more direct optical nerve link implant as part of their suit equipment (and having been subjected to the conditioning/acclimation required to make use of it), but a in-suit TV visual system and normal eyes would suffice. A psychic link to remotely see out of someone else's eyes and THEN to also have remote control over them is impossible with known Physics/Medicine. CONTROL via some brain implant (which both Little Sisters(Eleanor included) and Delta might have), sending signals via some electromagnetic (radio) wavelength, and being tied directly into many parts of the brain (optic nerve, motor controls, communications center of brain, etc..) -- THAT all is extremely complex and invasive. (for Psi abilities, jamming a brain remotely is magnitudes simpler than fine-tuned/coordinated control and/or remote sensing). Much more plausible is to allow some technical explanation (and assisted by deluded perception). External mental-suggestion/induced-hallucination and direction via a normal communications link is much simpler. Remote sound and visual sensors (bio-electronics) and electronics would have existed already in Rapture (ex- Security Bots and Scanners). The Interpretation of sensor inputs of your brain can be adjusted via drugs and conditioning (easy example is what you see is what a real Little Sister 'sees' as it runs around that area in Outer Persephone for you). It also could have been a recording of Eleanor PREVIOUSLY using one of her LS drones to fetch and stash her suit parts (being re-played to Delta). Eleanor is trying to convince Delta to help her escape, and Delta may not be interpreting what she shows him quite the way she expects, -OR- it is all for effect -- a manipulation to achieve HER goals. Possible that Eleanor had access to some of McClendon's Robotic Little Sisters (at some point), and THEY were what she was controlling remotely. Or stranger yet - it was actually Eleanor running about. We've already seen how Eleanor had skill manipulating machines, so unlocking her 'containment' and sneaking around Rapture wouldn't be impossible. Weird would be it being Delta himself (not quite dying since the 'severed bond doesnt always result in death) getting out of his suit, and then slithering through the vents, and marching around that section of Persephone to get the suit stuff for Eleanor (...though if she could do that already, then why bother having him do it ??). Funny would be the look on Sofia face when Delta sans suit came behind her at her 'desk', and then taps her on the shoulder and proceeds to strange her slowly (Yes, "Great Moments That Never Were" are fully possible in the MMORPG...) As mentioned before, much of the Vita Chamber repairs Eleanor could have done herself, directly on-site or working on pieces brought back to her, and guiding Little Sisters and Big Daddies to do alot of gofer work (like fetching an Alpha suit or Deltas body or collecting ADAM). Easier than having the Little Sisters being 'Possessed' by Eleanor to do all the work themselves under 'remote control'. - Of course, INSTEAD, we could simply have it all just be without logic (the lazy way out) - and descend into weird fantasy claptrap (with pseudo-science icing) like which Infinity BS congealed into (new joke - "The Quantum Particle Did It !!!" "They've Become Senient!!!"). We just say the magic word 'cuz', and avoid the challenge of creating it to match how the logical real world works. If you discard the restrictions of reality, then what does anything portrayed as historic/relatable to the real world MEAN any more ? Who cares about characters, when with the wave of a hand everything is undone and any effort expended playing is meaningless ? If you want Fantasy, then it could have been better/easier done (gamewise) without the need for including half-assed sort-of-science, or complicated/ludicrous fake-engineered justifications. Just think - Infinite BS, instead of being boring smeg, could have had truely psychedelic mind-stretching events and hallucinagenic player activities, instead of being mundane and repetitive. That bad cliche plot could have abandoned the maudlin romanticism and sentiment and made for much more awesome effects and spectacle. --- --- --- The Masquerade - The Party that Never Stops : Masks to fit even the most gruesome deformities - guaranteed... One area of the old City were the inhabitants didn't descend into violence, instead they 'Got Crazy' and decided to 'Party til the End of the World'. Except that never seems to have happened, and due to their good luck they have a relatively undamaged (as in threatening instant fatal catastrophe) city neighborhood and lots of kelp and fish to eat from a still operating automatic fish farm, which someone had thoughtfully installed back in the old days. With a little creative brewing of kelp-based alcohol products, the party was sustained. Splicers from far and wide would visit when their lives got a little too boring. Infiltrating this locale can be hazardous, as it is thought impolite to turn down a drink (masks have to be worn, of course) and the quality of the product isn't too good, but the quantity consumed is significant. Local musical talent always sounds like the Mos Eisley Cantina performers after a nightlong drinking bout (noone seems to care). Various records from 'the olde days' are often played and sung along with, and the inhabitants highly value appropriate replacements after they have worn out the records they play. --- --- --- Bunker Rapture : Rapture is built much like a WW2 German bunker/fortification (google "hitlers atlantic wall" images) , solid and bulky, it has to be. The famous Empire State building built in the early 1930's is built of a supporting skeleton of steel girders and walls of brick and decorative stone sheathing. It merely has to resist gravity trying to pull it earthwards and a little wind. Rapture is under assault by the pressure of hundreds of feet of water. Instead of having to resist great force (artillery shells) impacting at any one spot like a military bunker, it needs to resist great force at all its surface simultaneously and continuously. Tall thin buildings don't make much sense with this structural requirement - contrary to artsy cityscape pictures. A few maybe, to be impressive, but large numbers are impractical when the city already cost enough as it was. Thus the thick reinforced concrete structure to distribute forces working against its structural integrity and to seal OUT that water pressure. This also requires armored doors and windows, and the same for all other openings. Massive internal struts resist the forces tying to collapse the walls inward. --- --- Real World Pneumo : http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/COMMS/pneumess/pneumess.htm --- --- "Quaffable" - unlikely to be a consumer advertising word used for ADAM product branding --- --- Bathtubs Full of Green Goop (we saw in several places) : One wonders if that was Little Sister vomit (imagine the smell - but then IMAGINE THE SMELL in the rest of Rapture...) waiting for 'processing' to extract the raw ADAM (which then would need further somewhat more meticulous refining and conversion). On the other hand, it may have been algae culture used to feed 'pet' Sea Slugs, which also would be a likely source of ADAM (easier to care and feed them than Little Sisters). Later, with the decline of the availability of 'fresh' corpses (and Little Sisters) for Gathering, Sea Slugs would still be the main source of ADAM. --- --- Instead of Booker The Psycho -- Booker The Weasel : Booker is a loser who's life has been one of continuous irresponsibility. So the story should be of him trying to avoid/steal/cheat his way out of his situation - to get out of whatever the Luteces have planned for him. Being a drunk, he might not be a great shot (if he ever was - running around shooting indians in the back is hardly any achievement). Have him be more weasely like Poole (now THAT would be a link -- for Booker to be Poole's grandfather... Nah, needs more weasel than that.) Now there you would have more reason to have some game 'sneak' options, so that Booker could sneak around and shoot opponents in the back (or just blackjack them if he is squeamish about blood), and Elizabeth might have some more colorful conversations with him, and sayings like "Your Escape lies in marching ahead, instead of running away". It might be interesting to have Booker choose the best time to fully betray her - the Player's "immoral choice" ... --- --- --- Inspired Product : MMORPG -- to go with ADAM and EVE there is now "SERPENT" (a marketing gimmick, maybe something that handles the hangover you get after the ADAM stuff wears off. Cleans stray genetic garbage out of your body - probably is of use in "The Cure" Process). What it is made of would have to be 'special' : Surinamian Sloth Droppings or somesuch. (Have an Audio Diary of Fontaine complaining about how hard it is to obtain that noisome substance.) Next one can be called "APPLE" ..... nah, that would be just stooopid. --- --- --- "Sing Along With Fontaine ? NO. Fontaine Sings Along With YOU..." : Gad, imagine the TV show that Fontaine produced when diversifying with his money.... More of his propaganda of how he rose up from nothing and built his empire. His long-time goals were to finish his big scam and leave Rapture, so most things he did would be to those ends - makes the whole "Fontaine's Department Store" not really all that logical. Another truth which some people don't realize - you don't get success always by just throwing money at things. So there would be many things that Fontaine would have wasted his money on. And Thuggery can only get you so far in the real world. Note- Fontaines and Atlas's fictional families ... Wouldnt it (After a decade) be obvious that they didnt exist ??? Little details... (maybe the MMORPG will explain this) --- --- --- Thought For The Day : "The Germans are a cruel race, Baldrick. Their operas are 15 hours long, and they have no word for 'fluffy'." --- --- --- Red Glow Sea Slugs vs Green Glow Sea Slugs : War between the SeaSlugs ? Or Splicers who endorsed one over the other, for their difference in ADAM 'Nose', 'Volatile Acidity', and 'Finish'. Factions rose (not gallica) up and violently clashed over their disagreement. Most destroyed each other, but to this day their are still members of those Factions heard arguing in the depths. Yes, lets blame the fall of Rapture on the SeaSlugs... --- --- The Infamous Grenade Cat : No animals were hurt during the production of this game. Unfortunately a cat carrying explosives isn't a particularly good weapon, when the cat refuses to go where you want him to go (highly likely/typical). In the later days, there were few cats to spare, anyway. --- --- The Smell of Rotting Corpses : Not just year-old corpses (or somehow ones that manage to still be there after 8 years like in BS2 -- more unlikely ones out in the Ocean). Nice fresh ones like in 'Fontaines Department Store'. ?? Remnant ADAM mutates bacteria too fast or ? Air circulation in parts of Rapture aren't what they used to be (Splicers' nose falling off a 'Plus' ?). One wonders how exactly DID they condition Little Sisters to deal with this aspect... We saw plenty of flies around, though it might be a little 'off-putting' to have realism in THIS way for the MMORPG. Cold areas can influence 'freshness'. Vermin can effect how long corpses stay 'intact'. Real corpses hair and fingernails sometimes keep growing for months after the death, so what effect might adding ADAM to the situation have ? As far as I know, there are no 'Smell' interfaces for computer games yet. Smell-O-Vision had not caught on in Rapture (actually mentioned in Popeye Cartoon in late 40s) -- Olfactory version of game suggested at same time the Bioshock Movie was proposed.... Comments from NPC lackeys - "Ugh, thats a ripe one", "Break out the gas masks"... --- --- --- Microgears/Turbines/Rods/Levers made out of Ryanium (sub-nanotech) - ?? This MMORPG isn't Steam Punk/Clock Punk (its Gene-o-Punk) : Use mechanical computer (WW2 tech) shit for Bathysphere Auto-Nav unit ??? A real one STILL weighs a ton (literally), and doesn't fit in the Bathysphere's interior space. Miniature clockwork computers really just don't work. Bathyspheres allegedly replaced the AE Train system around 1952 ?? At that time there was no significant ADAM tech yet, Vacuum Tubes/early expensive Transistors still in use for computers.. (No Thinker). SO a Cable Tow system (point to point like the Skyway at Disneyland(was)) really is the most practical way it could work for an automatic/reliable/safe 'Transit System'. A number of the game concept pictures do show a Bathysphere on a cableway. --- --- --- Where has Harry Gone? ( Audio Diary ) : Transcript: "Another day waiting for Harry to come home. I told him not to speak up against Mr. Ryan's policies, and now he's missing! Just never came home! I went by the bookstore and all his books are gone too. I don't know what to do. Now I have to deal with that awful Sinclair just to have a roof over my head!" Vague (typically in this game) about exactly HOW/WHAT 'Harry' was speaking "against Mr. Ryan's policies" . Was he an open Atlas supporter ? Handing out pamphlets like "Lets Seize Rapture" ? Demanding taxes to start being collected to feed and house 'poor' people, or else ? Was against the City "Seizing" a Smuggler's criminal assets or was for turning it over to anarchists? And WHEN was this ? With a Civil War going on? With 'war measure' policies instituted to fight back against Atlas's terrorists?? "Why cant we just get along?" ? "They are just 'Freedom Fighters' !!" ? "Free The Fontaine's 74" ?? Or is this sometime before (still depends what all was in those 'books' he was selling or what else he might have been doing....) How many warnings did he previously get telling him that Aiding and Abetting Anarchists and Terrorists was Sedition and could be punished by exile ? Harry had a bookstore and all the books are gone - all of them ? All of them were seditious/subversive/parasitical stuff ? Enough to bother carting it all away ? Or 'seized' and piled in some lockup waiting for sorting?? In Paupers Drop might they all have been stolen by looters... Books must be pretty cheap to be bought by alot of people who can't afford their rent - or was it some of Lamb's subsidized propaganda ?. (But sorry, no details forthcoming). Without knowing the actual situation, it is hard to judge what really happened and why (and whether it wasn't justly deserved). Freedom does not extend to those who advocate murdering other Citizens and who instigate violence to advance their political ideology. - Minor note (but a telling detail) - somehow Harry's wife (who made the Audio Diary) "has to deal with that awful Sinclair" (meaning she doesn't have the rent to pay for her apartment (again?)) Does she think it wrong/awful that she should have to pay the rent or be evicted?? Also, is it even likely that Sinclair collects the rent himself ? (he says he's down there as little as possible. The Deluxe is actually a good sized residential facility -- something like 55 apartments if you include the inaccessible floors/rooms). --- --- --- Yet Another Rapture Yearly Event/Festival : Why could Rapture not have their equivalent of the Renaissance Fair : "the 1910 Good Ole Days Faire" going on at the same time (Celebrating a time before WW1, Income Tax, New Deal and other evils.) It would be a chance to recycle all the Infinite/Columbia period clothing and props, minus the Fantasy-BS. The historic Renaissance period was when there was a rise of the individual and 'enlightenment' (and without 'Holy Days' you lose most of your yearly Holidays). The 'Rapture Carnival' facilities needs to be kept paid for... --- --- . . .